February 13, 2007
7th & Rio Grande Condos on the Chopping Block
Among the many exciting items on tomorrow's City Council meeting agenda is the fate of CLB Partner's 32-story condominium tower at 7th & Rio Grande. Also on the list are the Retail Retention and Enhancement Program for Congress Avenue and East 6th Street, the Mayor's Climate Protection Plan, the Town Lake Hyatt condo plan, VMU opt-in/opt-out and the Big Box ordinance.
The Statesman has a rather bizarre article on the controversy surrounding this development. The article leads with the statement that a "coalition that includes nearby residents and property owners says the tower would be out of scale with the area." We're not sure that accurately characterizes local sentiment. We happened to catch the planning commission hearing on Channel 6, and pretty much every citizen that spoke on the issue was in favor of the project. The opposition was from one crusty gentleman who, in his day, had to walk to school uphill both ways in the snow (pre-global warming), Milkshake Media (whose offices directly across the street will lose their view), the Austin Woman's Club (which seemed primarily concerned about vibration) and the Austin Heritage Society. The nearby neighborhood associations and the clear majority of local residents and businesses are in favor of the project, including Ranch 616, which is integrated into the planned project, but will likely be displaced if City Council goes with the Planning Commission's recommendation to cap the building's height at 120 feet.
We should mention that we aren't unbiased ourselves: the wife of the author of this post works for the architecture firm designing this project. However, our default position is pro condo high rises and CLB Partners' developments (mmm,
UPDATE: City council has approved this project (at least on first reading, which we think means they have to approve it two more times). The folks at Milkshake made some good points and their opposition probably helped improve the project. CLB Partners has done nice projects in the past. Engage the street.
Image from CLB Partners.
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So.sick.of.condos.
I say we go back to sprawl!!! I love how Austin hates everything. They hated sprawl and development out in the hill country, now they hate development in the urban core.
The fact of the matter is that there isn't much land close to town to do dense single family home development, and the cost of building a high-rise is so astronomical that the only way these projects are profitable are to charge extraordinary rates for them. Unfortunately, that means 95% plus of us can't afford them. Do I care? No, I found a great refurbished condo in South Austin that was in my price range and I am happy with it.
Think about what these condos probably mean. Instead of building a McMansion out near Lakeway, these rich people are choosing to live in the town that supports them and they pay Austin taxes, which helps us all! So, I say bring on more condos and less hill country development! At least I'm not a hypocrite. (I just hope demand keeps up with the hype, I don't want more intel buildings dotting our skyline)
Awesome. Yet another project that will be second homes for rich people that don't live here. I mean, it's projects like these that make the average Austin resident able to live and play in the downtown area.
Grape Ape, your comment is so stupid that I just forgot how to tie my shoes. Thanks a lot.
A $300,000 condo seems like a lot until you compare it to the single-family home price in Old West Austin ($500,000 for a shack).
I'd love to see more condos closer to $200k, something that youngish couples can afford. But understand that new housing is only cheap if it's in the distant burbs (low land values) or government subsidized (ie, your taxes are paying for a very few people to get a better deal on housing than you). I get the sense that Austinites hate growth in the suburbs and hate growth in the city as well. Try moving to the midwest, where they're losing population and buildings and businesses close all the time, and see if that's a more desirable situation.
Mike - at least that $300k will get you more than one room and mini-bar in OWA. Spring released their prices last week: 1bdrm/550 Sf = $235,000...2 bdrm/1065 sf = $445,000.. 3bdrm/1700+ sf $935,000(!) That's way more than most of the property in OWA. (I sold my house @ 10th&Blanco for $260 per sf just last April.) Barnstone and these condo purveyors are all naked profiteers, plan and simple. Spring put up all this BS about lean-ness and affordability, how a fireman or schoolteacher would be able to afford these, being in the $200-$400k range... then added a pool, gym, guest suites, etc. AFTER the council approved the height variance, increasing their prices anywhere between 18 - 111% from their pre-CURE approval estimates. They had no shame lying to the council about their plans all along, and I hope the market awakens and resists their selfish drive to turn downtown into Paris Hilton's backyard.
Pat,
You aren't getting it. You can't buy a house, no matter how small or old, in OWANA for $235,000. The ONLY housing at that level in the area is condos. Doesn't matter if the $600,000 3/2 in OWANA is a better deal per square foot if you can only get approved for $250K.
Yeah, but how many people do you know who can get approved for $250k want to live in 550sf? It's incoherent. Price per sf is what's key, not how much the bank will loan you. If PPSF is $400+ like it is at Spring and beyond, no one earning less than $200k a year can afford it, no matter how small a space they're happy with. That range essentially serves only the top quintile of earners in this market.
No, Pat, minimum price DOES matter - even if you want a small house in OWANA, you can't get one for $250K, period. And I haven't even gone into the second-order effects of the new construction - but I will now; it holds down appreciation of older condo stock both downtown and in OWANA. (Think Railyard, for instance).
I just wonder where the rich people to fill all these outrageously expensive condos live now?
Downtown austin isn't that interesting. This isn't chicago, or new york.
This is a neighborhood, not the CBD. The design may be nice but it's not right for this area. 60 ft or even 120 ft might be ok but a 400 ft tower in a historic neighborhood is outrageous. Go to austindrawtheline.com to read more about why this project shouldn't be approved and what you can do to stop it.
You're right. $300K isn't that expensive, but there are only so many 1st floor condos for sale. Add on the ~$1000 per month HOA fees and you have yourself a $500K 1st floor condo when its all said and done. I recently heard from someone who runs around with council folks that the estimated population of 2nd home owners could be around 40-50%; meaning that most of these condos will be owned by rich folks who don't live here and only spend money here once or twice a year. As for getting rich people who do live around Austin to move off the golf courses and away from their lake access and swimming pools and their 5,000 sq. ft. homes...good luck. I just don't see everyone from Barton Creek and Lakeway moving into downtown where there is nothing to do and giving up their memberships and cramming their families into 1500sq. feet.
I hope ALL of these condos get built. Every single last one of them. I can guarantee you that these will not be going for $500k a few years from now. I bet the average will be less than 300k as they are dumped on the market at a loss by the original purchasers. Then the second batch of long term owners can move in.
First, this is not a residential area. It is a commercial district. The idea that Katz's is not "downtown" is just preposterous. Milkshake Media is a company, not a family living there and even if they were what harm is the building doing to them exactly? As far as I can tell even their view will remain exactly the same because the developers are preserving Ranch 616, a local business, which is just across the street from them. Milkshake should go back to advertising for Moreland selling Sprawlsville and if they don't like it they can head to L.A. where they'll fit in better anyway.
This is a commercial area, not a residential neighborhood. If you can't build height here than we might as well give up on saving Austin and Barton Springs. Maybe Milkshake should just stick to advertising Moreland Properties selling Sprawlsville and feel lucky to have a WORKPLACE in such close proximity to all this happening urban life.
This is a commercial area, not a residential neighborhood. If you can't build height here than we might as well give up on saving Austin and Barton Springs. Maybe Milkshake should just stick to advertising Moreland Properties selling Sprawlsville and feel lucky to have a WORKPLACE in such close proximity to all this happening urban life.
so, i guess nobody thinks that the general feeling of downtown shouldn't be preserved, that you can't drive down the freeway and see the capitol from the distance because we've crammed a whole bunch of yuppie condos in one area.
i agree that this won't be the haven of families. what family with small kids wants to live near the 6th street area? people with that much money want land and quiet streets so their kiddies can go bicycling in the evenings. they don't want their kids dodging throngs of fratboys who are trying to run over them getting to the bars. they want a large house in Westlake Hills and their school with a giant jumbotron on the football field.
basically, it will be a home for people doing business in the area or people who have loads of money and want a residence here and a residence there. the whole "livable" downtown thing is a joke perpetuated by people who want to sell the idea of ripping down historic buildings and destroying the downtown character under a phoney guise that it will cut down on pollution.
1. Anyone who thinks HOA dues are $1000/month for a downtown loft is ridiculous.
2. AustinKid, how can you make that promise? Do you know something that developers don't? Do you know something about the demand and demographics of Austinites that they haven't figured out? Are dozens of developers somehow doing studies on what to build that are ALL incorrect?
3. Suzanne, you're right. People don't want to raise their kids downtown. People never want to do that. I mean, New York City is just filled with single men and women who don't cohabitate and reproduce. Same with Chicago and San Fransisco and all the other cities from which thousands of "Austinites" originally came from in the past decade.
4. Suzanne, who gives a shit about being able to see the Capital while you're stuck in traffic on I-35? You should be paying attention to driving your goddamned SUV while NOT talking on your cell phone instead of staring out the window at the capital building and causing accidents.
Yeah, Suzanne, #3 especially is galling - many of us would LOVE to be downtown, but there weren't opportunities for so long that it's going to take a very long time for supply to catch up with demand. That's not an argument for further restricting supply.
I spent New Years' Eve morning in a playground in Greenwich Village; full of families with kids, who came from the surrounding mid-and-high-rises.
All you people who say that families don't want to live downtown. Do you have a family? If not, then STFU. I have two kids and one on the way. We'd love to live downtown and could afford a 3-bedroom condo in the $400-$450k price range if they would just build the damn things. I've emailed several downtown developers and real estate agents and they have no data on what families want. They just assume we all want to live in 3000 sq. ft. monstrosities in Circle C and spend our weekends getting yard supplies at the Home Despot.
There's lots of stuff for kids to do downtown: parks, trails, lake, YMCA, Children's Musuem. And the schools are excellent. Go to Jo's on 2nd any Saturday. Count the kids and count the singletons. You'll be surprised what you find.
We need to build more condos downtown. Density is good. It's good for the environment, it's good for the schools (tax base) and it makes for a more exciting and interesting downtown. The granola mafia is just going to have to suck it up or move to Marfa.
Oh, and this:
"people who want to sell the idea of ripping down historic buildings"
is a load of crap. The buildings being "ripped down" are some 1970s era single-story strip malls. The historic buildings are on the Bremond Block, and EVERYBODY supports keeping those the way they are, as well as any other property zoned historic.
Maybe Austin kids, and Texans in general, would grow up to be a little more well adjusted if they lived in communities that encouraged interaction with neighbors... as opposed to living out in the surburbs with private pools in the backyard.
Interacting with the neighborhood kids at the park and/or community pool (whether that's the Ramsey Park pool or your condo building pool is irrelevant) is one of the best things a kid can experience.
I hate the suburbs. Period. I love living downtown. However, I'm a single mom musician with three teenage artist and musician kids, and we can only afford to live in East Austin in a butt-ugly house that we're in the process of gutting-to-suit, thereby destroying any possible resale value. We would all kill to have co-op housing like we did in Minneapolis/St. Paul (we're from here though, so we moved home). There they have a great company that buys old warehouses and converts them into low-or median-income, artist-designated live/work lofts, and even have one specifically for artists with kids, which is where my kids spent many critically-formative years.
This is what Austin needs. I have access to all the planning information and strategy work that this org in the Twin Cities has done (they're called Art Space - no relation to the SoCo org.) because our old property manager for Frogtown Family Lofts in St. Paul works for them fulltime and has agreed to help me if I can find interest. I had thought that maybe something like this would happen out at the old airport, if not downtown, but so far no dice.
Easier said than done. If you know of any big spenders who might be willing to look into this, please send them my way. This is an idea whose time has (so far past) come in Austin that it's really sad that a town so progressive can be so thick-headed. Selection committees for each development ensure that the people who live there are who they say they are, and you can't get in without showing a portfolio and references of artistic merit. We are inundated with artists and musicians who would kill to live in places like this, and it adds SO MUCH to the whole community.
Any help appreciated. Contact me for more info:
Kelly Bell
281-772-2896 cell
morpheusathame@gmail.com
kbell@ercot.com
"I have two kids and one on the way. We'd love to live downtown and could afford a 3-bedroom condo in the $400-$450k price range if they would just build the damn things."
Damn, you must make a lot of money popping out children! I can't even afford a fucking $80,000 condo in Pflugerville and I work 40 hours + a week. But you keep on keeping Austin weird. I'm sure you are. With your $400,000 condo. And your 2.8 children. And your SUV and Time Warner Cable and Gucci purse.
Sheesh.